How can I deal with "good intentioned" prayers?

[hlg1767]

I am going this summer to visit my mother in sunny Puerto Rico and even when some of you may feel a little jealous, for me is not fun. My mother is always mentioning me in her church and adding my name to their prayers. I am very gracious to that and thank her because after all is not a bad thing to be remembered by others in prayer. The hard thing is when I am there, she want me to invite me to her church so they pray for me. She always ask me that as a "favor to your mother" so she can "go to church with her son". According to her church homosexualism is a demon and the way to deal with it is having 10 people (or more) put hands over the person (victim) and scream with all their heart for the demon to leave until, I guess, they can't take any more the torture of having people screaming in their ears or maybe just because of the embarrasment, they just fell to the floor. I don't want to be part of that circus. I think is denigrant and insulting. Should I still go to her church? How should I deal with it? And, what if I don't go to church on the time I am visiting but they give us a "surprise" visit?

[keltic63]

you are, I assume, an adult now, and as such you are entitled to respect and your dignity. Your mother is bullying you, and as much as you'd like to honor your mother's request, doing so would be disrespectful to yourself.

Sometimes, you've got to teach others how to respect you. Draw the line. Let her know that you won't be going to church with her, and that you will leave the house should any of those church friends show up with the intention to "lay hands" on you.

[scott snedeker]

Why not invite your mother to a gay Pride event remnding her that she owes you?

We teach people how to treat us

The tough part is that I'm Sure Puerto Rican mothers are like Italian and Jewish mothers. If they ask a question and don't like the answer, they just ask the same question again until they get the answer they want.

(BTW Italian mothers invented this but Jewish mothers perfected it! I discovered this in medical practice and point it out when one of my patient pull this one when they don't like my answers!)

But seriously I agree with Keltic.. Draw the Line!

First write a letter Telling how badly she hurt your feelings when she did what she did to you (Guilt is a Jewish mothers emotional bread and butter!)

Next Tell her that you were surprised at how much she disliked the real you and that it is makes you sad and lonely to be turned away by some one who used to love you. Tell her how lonely you both will be from now on that her love for you is sacrificed for her fear of losing her church "friends".

But also tell her that when she can let go of her predjudice that she is still in your heart and can come back into your life. Until that time however she must do "time-out" as it were. This is How "Nanny" get childish beings to behave.


BTW time is on your side not hers and believe me she knows it! I pointed this out to my homophobic father and let him chew on it a few months before I was ready to resume communication.

Here you teach in a firm but loving way, making it clear that you are an adult and will respond in such a way. Like a nanny you may need to endure childish screaming and protest. Reaffirm that "time-out" doesn't end until she behaves properly.

[merlin2921]

Wow, that's rough. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

You have every right to say no to having hands laid on you. I'm a Christian myself (or at least, I have been - I'm not quite sure I am now), and we're taught that you never lay hands on a person unless they're okay with it. If you don't want it, say no. I'm sure your mother loves you, but she's trying to manipulate you into an embarrassing and degrading situation just to make herself feel better - which is not okay, IMO.

[Rick336]

Originally Posted by hlg1767

According to her church homosexualism is a demon and the way to deal with it is having 10 people (or more) put hands over the person (victim) and scream with all their heart for the demon to leave until, I guess, they can't take any more the torture of having people screaming in their ears or maybe just because of the embarrasment, they just fell to the floor.

No disrespect for your mother, but this behavior by her church is the epitome of delusional thinking. The idea that homosexuality is caused by a demon borders on insanity.

I'm sure you love your mother, but you have no obligation to go to her church. Tell your mother that you respect her but that you believe that homosexuality is normal and that you will not be subjected to her church's nonsense.

Rick

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by hlg1767

My mother is always mentioning me in her church and adding my name to their prayers.

I am very gracious to that and thank her because after all is not a bad thing to be remembered by others in prayer.

I feel the same way, but there’s always that…but what exactly are you praying for me vibe…Are they praying for what they want, or for the Love of God's will to be done?

The hard thing is when I am there, she want me to invite me to her church so they pray for me.

She always ask me that as a "favor to your mother" so she can "go to church with her son".

So, as a favor to her, they can “pray” for you.

According to her church homosexualism is a demon and the way to deal with it is having 10 people (or more) put hands over the person (victim) and scream with all their heart for the demon to leave…

I don't want to be part of that circus. I think is denigrant and insulting.

Demon=Evil=Intention of Malice

So, if this demon of malice is what is causing your homosexuality, then what evidence of malice is there in you that causes you or anyone else harm?

Then what is the reasoning behind the explanation that same-sex attraction is demonic?

Should I still go to her church?
How should I deal with it?
And, what if I don't go to church on the time I am visiting but they give us a "surprise" visit?

Military Remember Police Patrol

You’ll want to be armed with sentences. Especially questions. But you’ll need to know them inside out, and make them your own.

A demon is by definition malicious intent.

If this demon of malice is what is causing your homosexuality, then what evidence of malice is there in you?

Then what is the reasoning behind the explanation that same-sex attraction is demonic?

Military Remember Police Patrol

My mom used to always say she prayed for me, and she's Palin2012 material, but I finally confronted her and asked her whether or not she was praying for me to become straight, or not be "confused," or what, or whether she was praying for the highest good of all? And she immediately said that wasn't true, that she always prayed for the best to work out. And I believe her, and she's not the deepest brain in the pot, so it's not hard to make her think for a sec. This one she answered right away. She wanted to make sure I knew that she was sure that she didn't do that - pray for what she wanted instead of whatever would help me.

So the gay thing is perfectly approachable with her, not necessarily comfortable, but the freedom is there.

So it's possible, and sometimes it takes time, but then she's going to have to figure out her relationship with her church memeber and her church.

It may be a good thing, but it can also be stressful. To lose one's friends and/or what you put so much stock into believing, can be damaging to one's identity. Especially if it happens suddenly.

I'm kind of thinking about your mom there.

Remember, with the right questioner, those remember questions above can be delivered with the ease of cotton candy.

[BrianB]

My mom would also say she was praying for me. I asked her what she was praying for. She said 'That God's will be done in your life." She would then tell me what God's will was for my life. I said "That's you're interpretation." I would pray for God's will to be done in her life. We would hug and say I love you. That would be the end of it until the next visit.

Mom passed away 2 years ago. Hopefully she is in a better place. I don't miss the arguments but I do miss the "I love you's."

[Dakota]

Jesus loves us no matter who we are, whether we are gay, straight, bi, or transgender, the church preaches that we should love our neighbors as ourselves and accept what God gives us, and yet, we are still told that we are either possessed by a demon or that we will go to Hell if we don't change. Hmmm! It's just one more way for conservative Christians to make us into something we're not, I guess.

[Daniel]

I loved what you said:

We teach people how to treat us.

So true. Also true that we teach people how to treat us based on how we treat ourselves. Yes. The compassion we give ourselves is what can also give others. And we can't give what we don't have, right?

I think there something of the Golden Rule in there somewhere.

[baumgrenze]

Originally Posted by BrianB

My mom would also say she was praying for me. I asked her what she was praying for. She said 'That God's will be done in your life." She would then tell me what God's will was for my life. I said "That's you're interpretation." I would pray for God's will to be done in her life. We would hug and say I love you. That would be the end of it until the next visit.

Mom passed away 2 years ago. Hopefully she is in a better place. I don't miss the arguments but I do miss the "I love you's."

To Brian and others reading this thread,

Brian, I'm sorry you no longer have your Mom to say "I love you."

Please bear with me, I'm an ~70-year-old evangelical PFLAG dad (no, that is not an oxymoron.) I've finally decided to share something that has been on my heart for some time.

Long ago I decided that it is important for me to pray for the 'them' (of the “us and them”) in our lives. I make it a part of my regular prayer life to pray for "the church" (I pray for individual leaders I know, by name, you can insert the names of others you know instead.) I pray that they will have a Damascus Road experience to convince them that God created in His own image, gay, lesbian, transgender and bisexual brothers and sisters in Christ, and neighbors he intends should added to His flock. Christ enjoined us to love our neighbors and our brothers and sisters in faith. I ask that those who lead His church understand the truly radical nature of this call to love. That they be changed so that they will henceforth teach us that all must be allowed to use their God given gifts to His honor, praise and glory, in His church and in the community, that we be taught to embrace all who acknowledge Christ as Savior, and that we honor and support all who are doing their best to raise or be a family, giving them credit for their effort to sustain a relationship we should all acknowledge as a marriage. Ask God to help our leaders see that we need to invite all our neighbors to faith without the precondition that they be like us.

Please join me in praying for the church and for its leaders. Be bold in the choice of names you select. Be clear in what you are requesting. Pray often and pray with the confidence that God hears your prayers. Remember the parable of the woman and the judge in Luke 18. If enough of us get to work on this God knows what we may accomplish.

After all, He used a cradle Lutheran lesbian partner to lead my 35-year-old daughter to accept Christ and request baptism. I look forward to the day when the same will be true for my 40-year-old son and his partner, neither of whom currently attend church today.

God bless,

John

[Gennee]

I always point out that how God deals with each of us is a personal matter. One of the horrors of the ex-gay ministries is the harm it has caused. I prayed about my own transgenderism-he loves me just as I am. Being gay, lesbian, , bisexual, or transgender is a gift of God, IMHO. Calling every wrong a 'demon' was popular in the late 70's and early 80's. People don't choose their sexuality and/or gender identity, though much of the institutional church believes that it is a choice.

One thing I do know is no one was ever brow-beaten into the kingdom of God.


Gennee

[Gennee]

Originally Posted by BrianB

My mom would also say she was praying for me. I asked her what she was praying for. She said 'That God's will be done in your life." She would then tell me what God's will was for my life. I said "That's you're interpretation." I would pray for God's will to be done in her life. We would hug and say I love you. That would be the end of it until the next visit.

Mom passed away 2 years ago. Hopefully she is in a better place. I don't miss the arguments but I do miss the "I love you's."

Brian, I believe my being transgender is God's will for my life. It has brought me to a group of people who are marginalized and oppressed just because of who we are. It's what God thinks that matters, not what society thinks or says. Society's been wrong about many things.

Gennee

[Healing hearts fellowship]

We have just launched our new website and some of the comments are prayers as you are speaking of that your mother do to you. In one week we have lost many friends and the bashing of church people is so hurtful.

People support you and say they love you until you make a stand to serve God.

I say to you stand strong and talk with your mother about her actions, if it hurts you it should hurt her with you being her son, and I pray that things get better for the both of you.

Be safe because your already blessed,
Tii

[koneill08]

Gennee,

"One thing I do know is no one was ever brow-beaten into the kingdom of God."

I love what you said. I have this theory that is in line with your statement. What you gain by fear, must be of necessity maintained by fear.



Enjoy!

[kara speltz]

My response to people telling me that they are praying for me, is to simply smile and tell them that I'm praying for them also. We all can use prayer, that's for sure!

[SolApollo]

Good response Kara & I usually do that w/ homophobic family members: I say thank you for the prayers & that I will do the same for them. For that moment, it does ease the tension & prevents arguments from escalating.

[SolApollo]

Update: Out of 235 facebook friends, one just sent me "I'm praying for you" message. Personally, due to living in a rural, largely conservative town; that's a sign of progress, lol. I just replied stating the same as I've did it before and Kara mentioned its usefulness too. Anyway, just posting that times are changing, and there seems to be less religious fanatics as compared to the past (they are still there, of course, and dangerous, but things, overall, seem better). Gallup Poll even indicated 61% of the nation supported gay & lesbian civil unions / marriages as opposed to just 49% in 2004.

[bnmoore]

We're always at choice. If someone is praying at you and not for you, you're free to ignore it. Perfect Love is yours as is. If you're at peace with yourself and what lies at the core of your being no-one can take it away from you. Prayer changes you and maybe how you feel about you. You're already Divine. You came that way. So did Mom and every other well-wisher or nay-sayer. There is no they. All One and done.

[Tallit]

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

The tough part is that I'm Sure Puerto Rican mothers are like Italian and Jewish mothers. If they ask a question and don't like the answer, they just ask the same question again until they get the answer they want.

(BTW Italian mothers invented this but Jewish mothers perfected it! I discovered this in medical practice and point it out when one of my patient pull this one when they don't like my answers!)

But also tell her that when she can let go of her predjudice..
.

As a Jewish guy who is also half Latino, may I say you may have a few predjudices to let go of also?

[ursus]

In theory, praying is all well and good. I'm not sure if I believe it has any power one way or the other, but it certainly can't do any harm.....

HOWEVER....

When I meet one of my mother's friends, and I think they're cool and we hang out for the afternoon and just as they're leaving they throw out, "and I'll pray for you" their ulterior motive becomes abundantly clear.

If you want to pray for me, fine. Don't pretend to be my friend because you think you can somehow manipulate the cosmos into making me straight.

And, obviously, in reference to the original post, that would be an example of prayer that DOES do harm. I personally wouldn't call it prayer. Don't subjugate yourself to that. Treat yourself better.