Scholasticism And Natural Law

[Liberal Crozier]

We have several friends who are liberal Roman Catholic priest theologians - some gay and some straight - who have been effectively silenced for the past two decades. In order to understand their insights, you must find early works - often prior to the APA pronouncements - in order to understand their attack upon Scholasticism and Natural Law arguements used against us.

The Western Church or Patriarchate (Rome) following the Great Schism from the Eastern Church or Patriarchates (Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria) followed a different philosophically-constructed and Aristotelian approach to teaching the Faith. I have always remarked upon the fact that the Eastern Church has had schisms, but not a Western Church-style Protestantism denying the essentials of Apostolic sacramental Christianity. This system permeated even the Reformers - who themselves used the constructions in such works as Calvin's INSTITUTES.

Without a doubt, most Catholics today are vastly ignorant of their Faith beyond a simple catechetical understanding. Boomers raised in parochial schools and Catholic high schools did so in the last period where religious vocations had been fed during the Great Depression. Today, if these institutions still exist, they are entirely secular in staff and approach. A single solitary priest, or religious man or woman identifies the reality. This void has been filled by the fundamentalist and dominionist Christian sects.

Decades ago, when I first learned the Latin language, I became aware that the grammatical rule was explained in one simple sentence - whilst the exceptions to the rule filled the rest of the extensive chapter. This is a perfect analogy for the reality of Catholic faith and practice where the beliefs hit the pews.

For example, the rule is that Roman Catholic priests are celibate. The exceptions have always been there. The "Uniate" or Ritual Churches have always used Orthodox discipline in optional celibacy for lower grades of clergy. The Pastoral Provision programme has allowed Anglican or Lutheran clergy to be reordained....if they did not possess the "Dutch Touch" whereby they were merely received into Communion with their wives and families. A cute aside is that this Provision is ONLY allowed for cradle Anglicans and Lutherans who have NEVER been Roman Catholics in their lay or clerical lifetimes.

Do NOT even get me started on issues like birth control or divorce/annulment. The average Catholic is aware of the duplicities that inform those doctrinal issues.

There is no doubt that the Roman Catholic position on homosexuality is still informed upon the paedophilia scandals and the loss of many European North Americans who have left the Faith or simply have lapsed attendance and support. The largest group of Roman Catholics worldwide are in Latin America, where Protestant fundamentalist inroads are becoming significant.

The scientific community has spoken clearly, unequivocally and without any subtefuge. We are part of the " natural law " in all disciplines. The diversity is clearly known. We discovered the microscope in the 19th century. We know that ovaries exist. Yes, not to the naked eye, but they do. Our ancestors knew only about wombs and sperm and made the wrong theological and scientific conclusions. The male and not the female determines gender, and "spilling your seed" did not mean that you were spilling a potential foetus. How many young teenagers in full throws of puberty and multiple masturbatory days and nights had to also wrestle with Natural Law, Scholasticism, and Mortal Sin?

Is it possible for LGBT Catholic Christians to remain loyal to the Roman Magisterium led by Joseph Ratzinger and effect change in their Church? I suggest that the question is ill-posed. Let me attempt another question.
Is it possible for LGBT Roman Catholic Christians to remain Catholics but leave the Roman Catholic jurisdiction and join an autocephalus gay-affirming Catholic jurisdiction? For Anglicans, Orthodox and Catholic gay and lesbian Christians - changing pews is more complex than for their Protestant brothers and sisters. It speaks to the nature of the sacraments and not so much the absence, but the certainty, of validity of the Eucharistic celebration and the Reconciliation bond.

This is the first day since being in hospital that I feel somewhat better. My son is playing at my feet, and at age 3 1/2, likes to massage my bald pate.
When the lack of taste buds, and therefore appetite governs my day- adding nausea to the mix - I stare at the photo of the man who sits in his office and has shared my bed for thirty years - often in an " open cupboard", and I know the true meaning of the words " natural family."

Please be assured of my prayers for Soulforce and its prophetic and Spirit-led founders and leaders, and for each and every one of you who read these words. You have my Apostolic Blessing given by internet - truly " urbi et orbi" (huge sheepish grin)

[Liberal Crozier]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Can the Church change when truth is more clearly defined? In the first millennium, the Oecumenical Councils of the Undivided Christian Church dealt with the Person of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

The two messages are clear. Over Christ having two Natures- human and divine as opposed to only a divine nature - we have the former accepted by Roman Catholicism and Oecumenical Greek Orthodoxy and the latter accepted by monophysites like the Coptic Orthodox or the Syrian Malabar or Nestorian Churches.

When two Apostolic Christian Churches disagreed fundamentally about the doctrines of the Church, they agreed to separate rather than to scandal the People of God further by behaviour unsuitable to Christ's example.

The second message is that the Church has changed its views and actually have vindicated prophets they initially villified. This also occurred at that time. This deals with the issue of Monothelitism. It may have happed fourteen centuries ago, but if you are interested you can read further.

Monotheletism
Monotheletism or Monothelitism (both: munoth'u litiz"um) [key][Gr.,=one will], 7th-century opinion condemned as heretical by the Third Council of Constantinople in 680 (see Constantinople, Third Council of). This doctrine, by declaring that Christ operated with but one will, although he had two natures, opposed the intent of the Council of Chalcedon. Monotheletism was first proposed in 622 and was immediately adopted by Byzantine Emperor Heraclius, for political reasons, as a compromise between Monophysitism and orthodoxy. The Eastern hierarchy, while doubtful of the dogma, tended to support Heraclius. In 631, Cyrus of Phasis, patriarch of Alexandria, promulgated a Monothelite thesis, which was opposed by Sophronius, a Palestinian monk (later patriarch of Jerusalem). At Sophronius' behest, Sergius, patriarch of Constantinople, wrote to Pope Honorius I for advice. The pope replied with a letter that apparently supported the doctrine of one will but forbade further discussion of the question. Soon afterward (638) Heraclius published the Ecthesis, which defined Monotheletism as the official imperial form of Christianity. When the Ecthesis arrived in Rome, Pope Severinus, Honorius' successor, immediately condemned it, ex cathedra. Heraclius, before he died, disclaimed the Ecthesis and attributed it to Sergius. Heraclius' successors, Constantine III and Constans II, however, continued to enforce the heresy. Popes John IV and Theodore I anathematized Monotheletism, but they could do little in face of imperial support of it. Constans II withdrew the Ecthesis and promulgated instead the Typus, a decree flatly forbidding the mention of one will or two wills or one energy or two energies in the Second Person. The Typus was favorable to the Monophysitism established in the empire but would have silenced the orthodox. Intended to make peace, it brought the controversy to a crisis. In 649, Pope St. Martin I convened a Lateran Council to condemn Monotheletism and was subsequently seized by the emperor, imprisoned, and exiled. St. Maximus was the most vigorous opponent of Monotheletism. The accession of Constantine IV to the imperial throne brought toleration for the Catholics. After the Council at Constantinople in 680, Monotheletism died out except among the Maronites in Syria. There was a brief revival of imperial Monotheletism from 711 to 713. The last of the Christological controversies, the Monotheletism question enhanced the prestige of the papacy, which took the lead in opposing official imperial heresy.

The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Liberal Crozier

Is it possible for LGBT Roman Catholic Christians to remain Catholics but leave the Roman Catholic jurisdiction and join an autocephalus gay-affirming Catholic jurisdiction? For Anglicans, Orthodox and Catholic gay and lesbian Christians - changing pews is more complex than for their Protestant brothers and sisters. It speaks to the nature of the sacraments and not so much the absence, but the certainty, of validity of the Eucharistic celebration and the Reconciliation bond.

Liberal- I'm glad to hear that you are feeling a bit better and pray for your full recovery!

The question you pose above is an interesting one. And I must confess that I have never thought about it in this way. On the surface, I would say: "Of course! Anything's possible." Not withstanding the whole "it is real communion?" concern. But of course, what is possible isn't always probable. I wonder if the catholics you refer to are 'awake' to the issue at hand. It seems to me that human beings, being creatures of habit, are loath to upset their ways unless forced to do so by outside forces rather than internal principals- the latter being the provenance of persons who go beyond the limits of unconscious habit.

I might ask an entirely, but to this reader, equally important question in order to answer your question: can catholics learn to sing better? 20-30 years of bad cantors and out of tune guitars as well as a population which hardly contributes to raising its voice, hardly indicates that the situation will change for the better any time soon. And I do not mean to be glib here. I have always been astounded by the lack of participation by catholic congregations in which I have happened to serve as a chorister. It's like they are trained to have everything done for them, said for them and thought for them. I have never been able to ascertain why they are happy to sit silence and aquiescent in their seats. Could they go elsewhere to raise their voices, as it were? This is a question which I see as similar in spirit to your own. Of course they could. But I fear that they will not find their voices anytime soon, seeing that they only seem to rouse themselves on the happiest of occasions, that is, on Easter and Christmas. The rest of the year finds them all too silent. It seems that bad music, like bad theology, leaves its mark.

[Liberal Crozier]

Dear Daniel,

First of all, our family thanks you for you and your family prayers. I must admit that quadruple cardiac bypass surgery was a long recuperative process, but although "painless" my new bout with cancer produces " chemo treatments" that have made me so consistently challenged symptomatically that heavy nausea caused such a serious dip in my blood pressure to near non-existent that a life flight and a week in hospital was the result. When it seems that I am better, it is again time for another weekly treatment.

Secondly, the answer is that there are many "autocephalus" Catholic, Anglican, and Orthodox bodies who have clearly stated a gay-affirming theology. Validity of sacraments - according to the Augustinian view of validity (as opposed to the Cyprian view for the Orthodox ) states that the unbroken line from a valid and canonical bishop to a valid but "uncanonical" (read outside the Roman Pontiff's control) still administers valid sacraments.
Caveat - there are and are not some more less questionable groups, and if you wish to know more, please email me privately.

Also, the question of women in Orders also will determine the gay-affirming churches. There are jurisdictions who ordain women to two or three grades of Orders, while others who are gay-affirming but maintain the male-only clergy.

Thirdly, there is no doubt that Roman Catholics have always relied upon a volunteer choir to "respond" liturgically. The Tridentine Church spoke to a passive reception of the sacramental celebrations. The Reformation spoke to an active participation in worship and praise - and especially with Anglican Chant mirroring the Gregorian Chant - you had the combination of lay Hymnal participation along with the Organist and Choirmaster leading the parish community in singing - or as the old Russian Orthodox expression states - " to sing is to pray twice."

Our family love to you, Daniel and your family - and also to all who also read this post.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Liberal Crozier

Thirdly, there is no doubt that Roman Catholics have always relied upon a volunteer choir to "respond" liturgically. The Tridentine Church spoke to a passive reception of the sacramental celebrations. The Reformation spoke to an active participation in worship and praise - and especially with Anglican Chant mirroring the Gregorian Chant - you had the combination of lay Hymnal participation along with the Organist and Choirmaster leading the parish community in singing - or as the old Russian Orthodox expression states - " to sing is to pray twice."
.

Thank you for the word Tridentine. I had to go look that one up (as well as several others in your posts- a happy circumstance- I might add). My interests are, or course, more muscial/historical than theological/historical.

I have always liked the expression: "to sing is to pray twice." I first heard the phrase when I sang at and Episcopal church years ago. My heart lies with that kind of music making. It is second to none.

My family, my husband John and I, thank you for your blessings. Today is the anniversary of our first marriage. The second- the 'legal' one- was in Toronto. If the New York courts make it possible (a ruling is expected any day now), we may 'go for three.'

BTW: my father had the same bypass you've endured, and recently had aortic valve surgery. You are right: the recuperation is long. In his case, 6 weeks.

While your current bout with chemo may have affected your blood pressure, it does not seem to have had any effect on your clarity of expression, wit and warm heartedness.

All the love you send comes back to you a thousand fold with a long hug.

[Liberal Crozier]

Thanks, Daniel, for your continuing prayers. I always look forward to your posts and replies. There is a growing and compassionate faith community on line here.

[Zerbie]

Being talented for languages, it frustrates me that I haven't been able to decipher the meaning of Urbi et orbi, a phrase you've used more than once here.

And I wasn't successful trying to search online dictionaries for the meaning, either. What comes to mind is a memory from anatomy class in which some of the muscles in the face (eyes, mouth) had names like 'orbi' or some variation thereof, because they were round. Which doesn't tell me a thing about what the phrase means.

???

[Liberal Crozier]

My lovely friend -

Urbi is city (urban) and Orbi is world (orbit) - Latin humourous comment upon what the Pope says when he delivers his Easter and Christmas blessings from the balcony.

[Zerbie]

Oh! I wouldn't have come up with Urban and World.

Thanks.