The Bishop's Spouse

[Liberal Crozier]

No, I do not mean David Niven, and this is not Loretta Young. Our son is sick with a cold and fever and my retired Mitre and Crozier is bravely fighting the effects of weekly chemotherapy.

He insisted upon my posting this for him. He wished to say that Daniel was right and that some of these political machinations are predictable when both prestige and power are the underlying motivations.

Compromising with injustice and with discrimination for the sake of a false communion never accomplishes its goals. +Cronemeyer of Newark, who replaced the initiating +Spong in that diocese - will retire in January, and freely admitted that although they could nominate and elect a competent and excellent candidate for Ordinary, they could not confirm his appointment in the national Church.

After losing the initial vote, the Opposition Forces - intent on creating a national church in their image - either wholly or side-by-side - were provided with a "pyrrhic" victory in the form of a non-binding resolution affirming their anti-gay agenda - with +Katharine assenting as well as the +PB, who "blinked".

What was the response from the spokespersons from the Opposition ? More derision and claims that we will continue to ply our " homosexual agenda " and that the Anglican Communion is NOW and DESPITE EFFORTS AT APPEASEMENT - "irrevocably broken". So much for Neville Chamberlain and "peace in our time."

The Poll question is clear : Does this strategy of compassion toward those whose agenda is nihilistic produce anything but prolonged agony before sure schism? Is membership in an honourific associative body necessary to maintain an episcopal faith community with both valid Faith and Sacraments?

A final thought to ponder. There has been, since Troy Perry established a gay-affirming poly-denominational Christian family with twelve persons on a couch in Los Angeles in 1968, an important question to consider.

Which effort has produced or has the potential to produce the desired effect for gay Christians? What is that product? Assimilation in mainline bodies or specific new communities open to all? Should they mirror the theological divisions important to Christians? Catholic or Protestant or Orthodox?

In 2001, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada - decades after twelve gay-affirming Christians in Los Angeles joined in prayer and fellowship - the city's UFMCC pastor married the FIRST gay and the FIRST lesbian couple in both a secular legal and spiritual sense in the modern era.

( Yes, true - the Netherlands claims the first in 2001 and Belgium in 2002 - ahead of ON in 2003 and finally all of Spain and Canada in 2005- but the first ceremony in Toronto preceded all the rest. When finally provided their marriage certificate in 2003, the Province of Ontario acknowledged their error and dated their certificate on the actual date of their marriage in 2001-months ahead of the first Dutch wedding.)

So - when " two or more are gathered in My Name" rings true and rings loudly. Both ways, or one way - talk about it." love +LC

It is the Bishop's spouse again.....must attend to my infirmary ward here....and the most important fact is that they will all be well since they are both much loved.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Liberal Crozier

What was the response from the spokespersons from the Opposition ? More derision and claims that we will continue to ply our " homosexual agenda " and that the Anglican Communion is NOW and DESPITE EFFORTS AT APPEASEMENT - "irrevocably broken". So much for Neville Chamberlain and "peace in our time."

The Poll question is clear : Does this strategy of compassion toward those whose agenda is nihilistic produce anything but prolonged agony before sure schism?

Dear Spouse,

Greetings to you and Liberal. (the David Niven allusion made me laugh out loud!)

To this reader in a word: NO! I believe there is a time, when one must take a stand and say like Gandalf "You shall not pass!", striking hard on the bridge before the demon of bigotry eats one's friends alive. That's compassion! If you go down in flames at least you've saved someone. The vote only served those who in blindess sought their own ends and not the good of those they served. (Fair reader: see the move The Lord of the Rings to get the complete picture on Gandalf.) Is is compassion to sell your GLBT members down the river ("Dear members.....please wait....we're sorry to have to put you on hold....oh....we really don't mean to pass this...it's non-binding....shh!....don't tell anyone...see how we pull the wool over our own eyes?) What has this vote managed to do? To be blunt: piss off everyone.

How patient must one be in the face of bigotry?

One thought comes to mind here: last night I happened to see a documentary here on PBS on the passing of "U2" by the NYC City Council in 1986, legislation which protects gays and lesbians (they weren't using GLBT yet) from discrimmination in housing and employment. I've seen this documentary at least three times now over the years, and I still cry each time that I see it. Why? It reveals how nasty religious opposition is (The deciding vote was cast by Ruth Messenger- who lives on the end of my block. God Bless her!) when it comes to GLBT rights and what it took to get this legislation passed: 15 years and tireless efforts. The vitriol on the side of conservatives in the film is shocking. I would say that while the 'discussion' in such matters has grown more 'polite', the motivation by conservatives has not. And in a deft twist of logic, conservative christians are now claiming themselves the victims of the "gay agenda, in effect crying to all: "I have the right to be a bigot!".

What to make of all of this? While the methods of Soulforce are quite different in tone than those who addressed the NYC council in 1986, the spirit is the same. The goal may not be legislation, but rather, what is written on the heart. Into the lion's den we go, my friends!

In 2001, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada - decades after twelve gay-affirming Christians in Los Angeles joined in prayer and fellowship - the city's UFMCC pastor married the FIRST gay and the FIRST lesbian couple in both a secular legal and spiritual sense in the modern era.

I toast you and your fair country, this being gay pride weekend. The courage of your country is a shining light and hope for everyone!

With many blessings, healing thoughts and prayers.

[Zerbie]

Good morning,

Daniel what an impressive post, and I agree. I think that with so many governing and organizing bodies it becomes easy to lose sight of what is essential, and that makes it possible to take non-positions, like this insulting - and also rather vague - resolution that happened this week.

Spouse - all the best to you and our dear Crozier, and the little one.

[Daniel]

Good Morning Zerbie!

Here's the film I referred to for those who are interested. You might be able to see it in your area....it will be shown again on WNET in NYC Thu, Jun 29 1:30am.

Out! Rights and Reactions: Lesbian and Gay Rights and Reactions: Lesbian and Gay Rights on Trial

This film vividly documents both sides of the issues behind legal and civil rights for lesbians and gay men, in the social-historical contexts of the AIDS crisis and the 1986 New York City Council hearings on the Gay Rights Bill.

[LGBT FLIGHT ATTENDANT]

You may not remember me. I am a flight attendant for a mainline US international carrier. When you were still wearing a red-purple shirt with that cross and ring, you were a passenger along with a VERY VERY VERY handsome man and young toddler, who I assume would be three or four today.

At first, you appear this distinguished prelate - but you merely had to look up, and see your ready smile and loving nature. Your sense of humor is very sharp and very timely, but never cutting, and very self-deprecating.
The flight was international and many of us merely shared with you rather than sleep. Thirty years together.
wow.!!! You did not say it, but you did not deny it. Your love for he and your son was palpable.

I just know it is you !!!! Toronto ON to Newark NJ and then Newark NJ to London UK.

I do not go to church but in you, bishop, I felt Christ.

[Liberal Crozier]

If you work for a " mainline airline " coloured white with blue lettering and a blue half-world sphere on the tail - lol - then I believe that I remember that flight. Our son was about fifteen months old at the time. If such is the case, then we remember your excellent customer services and more, your "family approach" to our needs.

We are very pleased to have found SOULFORCE and hope that you stay and share with a rather caring and compassionate group of individuals who have become an internet family.

Also to all. Allow our family to wish the Reverend Dr. Melvin White, founder of Soulforce, a blessed birthday anniversary celebration.

PS - Both my "boys" are asleep after a rather difficult night and morning - each battling with their symptoms. Our son is asleep in Poppa's arms - a place that does very much good for both of them.

[LGBT FLIGHT ATTENDANT]

This is a wonderful website. I am very pleased to have found it. Yes, I hope to join some threads here and share my thoughts about secular civil rights and the blurring of those rights by religious extremism.

[Daniel]

Dear VERY VERY VERY handsome Spouse ,

I happened to catch Bill Moyer's new program, On Faith and Reason this evening (a reader of my posts will pick up two things: I read the NYTimes and watch PBS) where he interviewed Salman Rushdie.

Originally Posted by 1-click Answers

Indian-born British writer forced into hiding when his novel The Satanic Verses (1988) led the Iranian Ayatollah Khomeini to demand his execution. His other works include Midnight's Children (1981), which won the Booker Prize, and The Moor's Last Sigh (1995).

Rushdie, an avowed atheist, said something that caught my ear: "When you bow to intimidation, you only invite further intimidation." Well. The man, based on his history,would know a great deal about such things, wouldn't he? He never backed down from his position in spite of death threats etc. It made me wonder how those at the General Convention could be so easily cowed. If an 'aethest' can exhibit principled backbone, what does that say about the faith of those who voted in favor of this 'non-binding' muzzle? (Yes...I know I'm pushing it here!)

Salman made another interesting point in reference to fundamentalist Islam. He asserted that that fundamentalism would finally lose its force when the rank and file of muslims turned away from it, much like the way in which the Irish Republic Army lost its influence after moderates stopped supporting it. This made me think about the influence that Soulforce is endeavoring to make. In the end, it may be moderates who need the message most.

I must confess that I'd never read any Rushdie, but after seeing a clip of him reading one of his books, am curious about the man and his ideas. Like Sam Harris (and it's interesting to me that his book, The End of Faith, hasn't been discussed here), he has an interesting view of things. And I'm curious to know what you and Liberal think about all this.

And Flight Attendant: I'm constantly amazed how small the world really is. There are no coincidences. We really are all connected to each other it seems.

[NathanATX]

I feel incredibly "fed" after reading this thread.

[Liberal Crozier]

Hello everyone - thank you for your prayers -

It is chemotherapy morning - and as if in anticipation of the next few days following the "treatment", I relish the health that has become the few hours of relatively "good feeling" between them.

Daniel has voiced an extremely important and timely (for the third millennium) question, namely, " Do you stay in your cradle or earlier chosen Christian faith community - with generations of ancestral ties - or do you bravely become a Christian pilgrim in search of a part of the Body of Christ where the Holy Spirit is teaching and making the People of God aware of its heresies and misunderstandings?

In this website, Mrs. Reitan discusses this very topic. She and her husband have long fought for the ELCA to speak affirmatively about homopsychosexual orientation in the light of scientific and theological understanding. They have chosen to honour their son by leaving the denomination that nurtured and educated them and provided Christian grounding for generations since the Reformation.

The underground Early Christian Church was vibrant and forever aware that the next day might translate them into "Purina Lion Chow". The Constantine Donation and the establishment of Christianity with secular power has weakened it throughout the centuries. Initially, this Donation stopped the persecutions and the murders of Christians. The next phase was secular support to build houses of worship and the donation of vast estates for that purpose. The next step was to expect that primogeniture rights included the right of the second son to enter the Church, and if wealthy and prominent, to become bishops and more, in the Church. Today, we have mainline Christian bodies who have the fear of schism and loss of property, salaries and rights - not to mention honourific associations - that they doublespeak and worse, use the LGBT community of faith - clergy, chorister and layperson - afloat in a sea of doubt and "sinfulness". The Roman Church has it worse, with its hierarchical Magisterium, and a self-loathing homosexual at the helm - who discounts scientific research, and uses Aristotelian Thomistic apologetics to resurrect "natural law" and "objective disorder" to prove choice, and therefore the requirement for mortal sin in the doing.....

There are solutions.....and they require a pilgrim's heart, mind, and napsack. Gone will be the familiar structure with stained glass windows purchased by ancestors to honour a prominent relative. Gone will be the trappings of mainline respectability. There will be no evidence of the Constantine Donation. What you can find is something more important. You will find the Great Decalogue in its catacomb description.....love of God and love of neighbour. Throughout North America, there are such church communities - nondenominational Protestant or some with Catholic, Anglican or Orthodox sacramental validity without association with Rome, Canterbury or the Phanar.

May I conclude by saying that this is what the Christian Rightwing Theocrats fear most. They sincerely hope that the LGBT community does not resurrect their strong affirmation of their Christian faith. ( Also true if you are an LGBT Jewish or Muslim person of faith). When it happened in Canada, they lost and we won our full rights of citizenship under Queen and Parliament and Judiciary. It was NOT a mainline Church that produced it. It was the UFMCC that did it. The United Church of Canada - the largest Protestant denomination - followed suit - but only after we had the commitment from within that it happened also from without.

[Liberal Crozier]

a liberal person told a rightwing member of the US Senate.....

" When you took your oath, you placed your hand on the Bible, and swore to defend the Constitution.

You did not put your hand on the Constitution, and swear to defend the Bible."

[Daniel]

I haven't fully digested this latest development yet. But it seems that the Amercian wing of the Episcopal church is being asked to defend it's action re Robinson.

Liberal- I guess this is what happens when you 'blink'.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/27/wo...rtner=homepage

In a defining moment in the Anglican Communion's civil war over homosexuality, the Archbishop of Canterbury has proposed a process that could ultimately force the Episcopal Church USA to decide whether having gay bishops and same-sex union ceremonies is worth losing full membership in the Communion, the world's third largest body of churches.


Liberal- I especially liked the following:

May I conclude by saying that this is what the Christian Rightwing Theocrats fear most. They sincerely hope that the LGBT community does not resurrect their strong affirmation of their Christian faith.

I could not agree more. There is nothing more discombobulating to conservatives than a gay person of faith who has embraced their whole Self: Body, Mind and Spirit.

[Liberal Crozier]

My dear brothers and sisters in Christ,

"Beware of the Greeks, even when bearing gifts." The Most Reverend and Lord Spiritual of the Church of England in the House of Lords, His Grace, Dr. Rowan Williams has issued a "non-binding" statement that sets into place a series of meetings and decisions in the next few years to give official status to the ultraconservative rightwing schismatics in ECUSA and give a hollow "non-voting associative/observer status" for the liberal shell of ECUSA.

Is there a clear operative strategy here? What was evident was the absence of mention of the Anglican Church of Canada - and of the "renegade bishops" who, although heterosexual, agree with the gay-affirming reality of Christian witness. Remember, nothing is mentioned about the fact that all but three provinces within Anglicanism accept the validity of women in Holy Orders, or in his case, beyond the grade of priest and not the grade of bishop. Equally interesting is the denial that polygamy in Africa among Christian and Anglican clergy was practiced as an "open secret" or a vestige of their cultural 'pagan' past. Capricious and arbitrary agendas is the rule of the day.

Remember. The Archbishop of Canterbury, like the Orthodox Oecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople is merely the honourific head of independent or autocephalous church bodies who voluntarily associate because of a shared Anglican faith with its three historical emphases in churchmanship. Only the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, the Patriarch of the West is the universal bishop and the infallible Vicar of Christ when he speaks " ex cathedra fidei." Like the US has not officially declared war since 7 December 1941, it was in 1954when the late Pius PP XII (Eugenio Pacelli - "close friend and mentor of Frannie Spellman") when that 1870 declaration was used to promote hyperdulia and mariology.

Canterbury and York ( Cantuaris and Ebor in Latin ) are employing a well-known strategy. It works in secular politics and in ecclesiastic politics. You remove tangible rights from your enemies; but provide them with an intangible "Pyrrhic" victory.

Example : Canadian neoconservative new Conservatives suggest that same-sex marriage can be ended on a date certain; WHILE LEAVING ALREADY ISSUED MARRIAGE CERTIFICATES AS GRANDFATHERED AND VALID. Since these rightwingnuts are supported by US political operatives, IT IS NOT SURPRISING THAT THE SAME DEAL IS BEING OFFERED MASSACHUSETTS GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO PRESENTLY HAVE LEGAL STATE MARRIAGE.

Associative Membership in the Anglican Communion while the rightwingers maintain the name, property, salaries, benefits, pensions of the corporation established in 1789 - while the real church becomes pilgrim vagantes might have some real advantages as suggested in my initial post on the subject.

Think of it - the first "cathedrals" were churches where the bishop found a comfortable tombstone in the catacombs. The principal job of the deacon was to play bouncer and guard the doors during the Liturgy of the Sacrament. The chasuble was the raincoat worn at the altar since sewers leak and not only purified water. Palls covered chalices so that the contents did not include anything but wine. Singing must have been without organist and choirmaster with doctorates in sacred music ( I LOVE THOSE GUYS - especially Titcomb) and certainly at a lower decibel not to be heard by Roman soldiers.

A national catholic jurisdiction with "vagantes" bishops and priests - men and/or women - a national reinforcement of the liberal Episcopal Church vestige removed from voting rights or an autocephalous gay-affirming Anglican body with "vagantes" bishops and priests - men and/or women.
Name the group and join them - UFMCC, Lutheran, Presbyterian....etc...

Then, here is the beauty. Unity within diversity. An associate body is established among these groups. The purpose is to speak with a powerful unified voice despite theological, doctrinal or disciplinary diversity.

What think you? I am up while the bedsheets are being changed. Seems that chemotherapy produces a rather wet bed after sleep. I needed to see what was printed. I will most probably be asleep most of tomorrow - and will probably experience the nausea, etc...after.

I love you all, individually and collectively, and thank you for praying for my loving spouse and our son. A bishop forever in Apostolic Succession.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Liberal Crozier

My dear brothers and sisters in Christ,

"Beware of the Greeks, even when bearing gifts." The Most Reverend and Lord Spiritual of the Church of England in the House of Lords, His Grace, Dr. Rowan Williams has issued a "non-binding" statement that sets into place a series of meetings and decisions in the next few years to give official status to the ultraconservative rightwing schismatics in ECUSA and give a hollow "non-voting associative/observer status" for the liberal shell of ECUSA.

Is there a clear operative strategy here? What was evident was the absence of mention of the Anglican Church of Canada - and of the "renegade bishops" who, although heterosexual, agree with the gay-affirming reality of Christian witness.

What think you?

Think?

I for one think you are an amazing fellow: posting while in the midst of chemo and the attendant sufferings. Geez! (I witnessed a friend deal with sort of thing- it isn't a walk in the park!) I wrap you in a thousand embraces and prayers.

Now....it's interesting what one Rev. David C. Anderson was quoted saying in the NYTimes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/28/us...rtner=homepage

The archbishop's proposal was greeted with satisfaction by conservative leaders in the United States, who had formed a powerful alliance with prelates in many of the provinces in Africa and in Asia, and in some parts of Latin America. The conservatives have insisted all along that it is the American church that destabilized the Anglican ship and should be pushed overboard if it will not relent.

The Rev. Canon David C. Anderson, president of the conservative American Anglican Council, said: "We really believe that the Episcopal Church wants to follow a course that takes it out of both Anglicanism and Christianity, as Christianity is historically known. So a two-tier approach looks good in theory."

Interesting for the fact that is seems that your thoughts are quite similar to his, but for different reasons, of course. I'm not sure what to make of this though. But it heartens me to know that Canadian Anglicans who are hetero and gay affirming.

How about we simply all immigrate?

[Liberal Crozier]

He is mercifully asleep, having given him both anti-nausea medication plus steroids. It is the third different protocol to stop or at least lessen the intense nausea that he experiences.

I came to check to see if he went into the study and the computer to sign on and type while I changed the bedsheets and checked on our son. He is a man with earned doctorates in theology and canon law. He did not have scarlet fever, and I met him when he was a priest. It is a sensitive subject and for family reasons, am not willing to share more at this time. Maybe someday.

I am not informed or aware sufficiently to add to what he has written. Thirty years has taught me alot, but his knowledge tempered by his compassion and love, informs me completely.

Good night, or rather Good morning

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Liberal Crozier

He is mercifully asleep, having given him both anti-nausea medication plus steroids. It is the third different protocol to stop or at least lessen the intense nausea that he experiences.

Good night, or rather Good morning

Good morning would be more like it : I'm up late, or early, depending on your perspective. The rain is coming down softly as I write. Sometimes I have a night when the brain gets 'thinking' and I work in the wee hours- oftened accompanied by music heard inside my head. Tonight I'm hearing the music of Gabriel Faure.

Spouse- your story is your own to tell, or not, in your own good time. I respect that entirely. And while I only have half of the years you have been together (it will be 15 years in July), I believe I know what you mean by being completely informed by one's beloved. It's not easy to put into words, but I can say that there are moments, even after 15 years when time stops and curves in upon itself.

I am glad to know that Liberal is resting in the arms of Somus.

Many prayers and blessings....

[Liberal Crozier]

Pro-gay Anglicans say Nigerian Church 'obsessed' with gays -21/11/05

Archbishop Peter Akinola and leaders of the 25-million strong Anglican Church in Nigeria have been accused of being “obsessed” with homosexuality while ignoring other major issues of concern from the perspective of the Gospel.

The comments came from the Dean of Southwark, the Very Rev Dr Colin Slee, in an interview yesterday with BBC Radio 4’s World at One programme, which was exploring the current row over a letter from developing world Primates that appears to challenge the leadership of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams.

Related Books

- A Church At War
- Gays and the Future of Anglicanism
- The Windsor Report



Dr Slee, who is a senior protagonist in the Inclusive Church network, said that the “obsession” of the Nigerian Primate and church leadership was “deeply cultural” more than it was theological.

He added that it stood in contrast to the Church’s relative silence over “the massive abuse of women, polygamy, female mutilation and stoning [in Nigeria] for adultery”.

In particular he criticised the heads of the Nigerian Church for failing to take an adequate stand against the threats of stoning against women caught in adultery under a version of Sharia law.

Those who have faced the death penalty in such circumstances include Amina Lawal, Fatima Usman and Ahmadu Ibrahim.

At the end of St John’s Gospel in the New Testament, Jesus is recorded as having intervened to stop the stoning of a woman caught in adultery, proclaiming “let the one who is without sin cast the first stone.”

The Archbishop of Nigeria was also strongly criticised this weekend by Oxford philosophy lecturer and vicar of Putney Dr Giles Fraser in the Guardian newspaper.

In a piece headlined ‘Rebuff this mad, bad clique with a bullying version of the Gospel’, Dr Fraser, who is also an Ekklesia associate, describes Dr Akinola as “ringleader of a clique of archbishops trying to unseat Rowan Williams from Canterbury.”

But one of those working with Archbishop says that Akinola did not perceive the content of the Primates’ letter to be “controversial” and says that relations between the Nigerian leader and the Dr Williams were “warm” at the South-South meeting.

Dr Fraser quotes Archbishop Akinola as having said “I cannot think of how a man in his senses would be having a sexual relationship with another man. Even in the world of animals, dogs, cows, lions, we don't hear of such things”, and “God created two persons - male and female. Now the world of homosexuals has created a third - a homosexual, neither male nor female - a strange two-in-one human.”

Psychologists, theologians and human rights advocates have condemned such remarks as cruel and inaccurate.

Related articles

- Pro-gay Anglicans say Nigerian Church 'obsessed' with gays
- Bishop's name removed from disputed letter to Archbishop of Canterbury
- Akinola denies rift over Primates' letter to Williams
- Rowan Williams calls for active dialogue over gay conflict
- Nigerian gay and lesbian Christians challenge Archbishop Akinola
- Episcopal bishop rejects Nigerian criticism on gays



Changing Attitude Nigeria, a group of Christians calling for the full inclusion of lesbian and gay people in the Anglican Church throughout the world, has criticised Dr Akinola for refusing to meet with them in accord with the Windsor Report’s call for ‘listening’, and also for ignoring their persecution.

In Nigeria, as in many parts of the world, gay people are attacked, imprisoned and killed.

Changing Attitude Nigeria leader Davis Mac-Iyalla and eight members were arrested and held in Wuse police station, Abuja, towards the end of October. The arrest seems to have been speculative, but the suspicion remains that they were targeted because of an article in the Sun newspaper of Nigeria.

Dr Akinola has also recently been robustly challenged on his theology and his approach to church politics by the Bishop of Washington DC, whose Episcopal Church USA has frequently been traduced by those who think of themselves as traditionalists.

Critics of the Nigerian Church’s vehement opposition to the role of lesbian and gay people in the Christian community argue that its use of biblical texts and traditional teachings ignores contemporary scholarship and alternative interpretations.

Over the past few days Archbishop Akinola has been at the centre of a media storm over the outcome of the third (Anglican) South-South Encounter in Egypt at the end of October.

As chair of the event he helped coordinate a letter from Primates’ responding to a presentation and question-and-answer session with the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams.

The letter was made public, against the wishes of some, and its signatories have been contested. One has since been removed. Dr Akinola has robustly denied claims of impropriety and says that “no-one objected” when it was drafted.

In the letter, 13 out of 38 Primates (regional heads) in the Anglican Communion praised Dr Williams’ scholarship and the contents of his paper on the doctrine of the Church.

But they also expressed concern over ‘omissions’, and raised the question about whether his personal and theological sympathy for gay people was preventing him from taking the sterner action the majority want against the inclusive policies in the US and Canadian Anglican Churches.

The letter also criticises the Church of England, and questions its state link, because it has agreed that clergy can be registered in same-sex relationships under the new UK Civil Partnerships Law (due to be implemented in December) provided they remain celibate.

Those who believe that Anglican theology and teaching can and should be affirmative towards lesbian and gay people, including the Bishop of Worcester, the Rt Rev Dr Peter Selby, say that the Church’s position is actually mean-spirited and insufficiently supportive.

[Also on Ekklesia: Rowan Williams calls for active dialogue over gay conflict; Read Stephen Bates of The Guardian in conversation about his book, A Church At War; buy Gays and the Future of Anglicanism ; Nigerian gay and lesbian Christians challenge Archbishop Akinola; Episcopal bishop rejects Nigerian criticism on gays ; Tutu calls on Anglicans to accept gay bishop ; understanding St Paul and homosexuality, by Oxford New Testament Professor Christopher Rowland]


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[NathanATX]

I'm thankful that voices are being raised against the Nigerian leader... But how is it that he is able to wield such influence?

I think we need to publicize the US fundamentalist churches' links to him and his "fruit".

[Liberal Crozier]

Nathan,

Here are some "realities" for both the Anglicans and the Roman Catholics. Their largest Anglican provinces and Roman Catholic primatial archdioceses are in Africa and Latin America, respectively.

Nigeria is a former British colony with a shared Christian/Muslim population. The Evangelical party were responsible for the Anglican churchmanship in Africa, in the same way that the Anglo-Catholic party was strong in British colonies in Central America (Belize) and the Caribbean. Depending upon the articles, there are between 17 to 25 million Anglicans in that nation - rich in oil and financial support for Lambeth.

The Roman Catholics have their largest numbers in Latin America. Huge fundamentalist and dominionist inroads are being made in these nations. US missionaries are building schools and hospitals as well as churches for the indigent poor. Despite the late pope's efforts in canonisations of every beatified candidate for the past five hundred years, the connexion between hierarchical wealth and support of the wealthy classes has made the nominal or cultural Catholic a prime target for sheep stealing. The three largest archdioceses (cardinalate) are Mexico City, Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paolo.

I am afraid that in all these decisions - from Lambeth, Vatican or Phanar or from national headquarters of mainline Protestant denominations - in order to fully understand motive and behaviour - follow the money, the real estate, the clergy benefits and the national general operating ledger.

How the Evil One enjoys our most delicious sins. and it has nothing to do with psychosexual expressions between consenting and committed adults in monogamous and loving relationships.

[Liberal Crozier]

Nathan et al....


Have you observed a similar theocon strategy shared with secular neocons?

When we win, in either Canada or the USA, or in Europe for that matter, our opponents bemoan the fact that " activist judges" interpret civil law to include our rights as citizens taken for granted by heterosexual citizens. They want to vote by referendum and re-write exclusionary laws in the federal or national legislatures, up to an including federal constitutional amendments, or use notwithstanding clauses to our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The latter was the concessionary clause added by the neocons when the Liberals passed the Charter. So, the circular arguement and strategy is continued when at last, they use incremental loss of rights to eventually gain their nihilistic outcome. The ends justify the means for our opponents. They are dealing with Satan, and their view of the Second Imminent Coming makes their zeal and ardour burn brightly.

Fast forward to the Anglican thread controversy. Canterbury has no monarchical or administrative control over ECUSA. It can exclude a province from membership in the honourific organisation, with that "canonical" implication. The incrementalism is clear......auxiliary membership for gays and lesbians ....and full membership for the " moral and faithful". So, also, is the clear-cut strategy to deny episcopal oversight in favour of asking an extra-canonical episcopal synod to govern another person's diocese in another separate national church based on theological issues that are more disciplinary than essentially core doctrinal.